Hearings to examine the nominations of Joshua Simmons, of Virginia, to be General Counsel of the Central Intelligence Agency, and Peter Metzger, of the District of Columbia, to be Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Intelligence and Analysis.

Select Committee on Intelligence

2025-10-08

Summary

This hearing convened to consider the nominations of Mr. Peter Metzger to be the Assistant Secretary for Intelligence and Analysis at the Department of the Treasury and Mr. Josh Simmons to be the General Counsel of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)[ 01:10:36-01:10:46 ] . The session included opening statements from the Chairman and Vice Chairman, remarks from supporting senators, and a Q&A session with the nominees covering their qualifications, the scope of their future roles, and pressing national security concerns[ 01:12:09-01:12:18 ] [ 01:15:00 ]

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Nominee Qualifications and Public Service

Both Mr. Metzger and Mr. Simmons were recognized for their extensive experience and dedication to public service[ 01:12:28-01:12:48 ]

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. Mr. Metzger's background includes service on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, the Marine Corps, U.S. Special Operations Command, and the National Security Council, with a focus on covert action, counterintelligence, and the Middle East[ 01:12:53-01:13:05 ]

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[ 01:21:25-01:21:40 ]

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. Mr. Simmons brings experience as Principal Deputy Legal Advisor at the State Department, where he worked on foreign policy, national security, and international arbitration, alongside prior experience as a UVA law professor[ 01:13:51-01:14:12 ]

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. Senators praised their commitment and suitability for their respective critical roles in national security agencies[ 01:22:17-01:22:31 ]

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Role of Legal Counsel and Upholding the Law

A significant portion of the discussion centered on the nominees' commitment to providing objective and lawful legal advice, particularly for Mr. Simmons as CIA General Counsel. Chairman Cotton emphasized the need for legal counsel to clarify what is permissible under the law, rather than merely creating obstacles, to help policymakers achieve their objectives legally. Conversely, Vice Chairman Warner and other members expressed concerns about political pressure influencing legal judgments and stressed the importance of nominees upholding the rule of law, even if it conflicts with administrative directives. Mr. Simmons reiterated his commitment to providing honest and clear legal advice based on statutory requirements.

Challenges and Threats to National Security

Senators and nominees identified several critical national security threats, including communist China's economic and technological competition, the Russia-Ukraine War, transnational drug trafficking, and the activities of narco-terrorist cartels[ 01:13:38 ]

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. There was also specific discussion regarding Iran as a state sponsor of terrorism and the need to counter its illicit financial activities and sanctions evasion efforts. Vice Chairman Warner voiced strong concerns about the current administration's actions potentially undermining national security by dismissing experienced personnel and reassigning agents from critical counterterrorism and cyber tasks to immigration duties. Emerging technologies, such as artificial intelligence and quantum computing, were also recognized as defining future national security challenges requiring careful legal analysis[ 02:06:30 ]

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[ 02:07:16-02:07:38 ]

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Congressional Oversight and Transparency

The committee underscored its critical role in intelligence oversight, requiring nominees to appear when invited and provide requested documents and materials[ 01:11:16 ] . Nominees were also asked to commit to briefing all committee members, not just the Chairman and Vice Chairman, on intelligence activities and covert actions. Mr. Simmons outlined the general counsel's statutory obligations to keep intelligence committees fully informed and to notify them of significant legal interpretations affecting intelligence activities. Senator Wyden raised concerns about efforts to eliminate Senate advice and consent for intelligence agency general counsel nominations, advocating for continued public hearings.

CIA Domestic Activities and Use of Force

Senators extensively questioned Mr. Simmons regarding the legality of CIA involvement in domestic activities and the President's authority to use military force against criminal organizations. Mr. Simmons affirmed that the CIA has significant limitations on domestic activities and law enforcement powers, and its mission is focused on foreign intelligence[ 01:40:08 ]

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[ 02:13:19 ]

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. Discussion included the designation of domestic terrorist organizations and whether such labels provide a sufficient legal basis for the use of force, with Mr. Simmons distinguishing between foreign terrorist organization (FTO) designations and lawful use of force decisions. The constitutional division of powers, particularly between the President as Commander-in-Chief and Congress's power to declare war, was also briefly discussed.

Tone of the Meeting

The meeting began with a firm and serious tone, highlighted by Chairman Cotton's immediate strong warning against audience disruptions, including a swift removal of a disruptive individual[ 01:10:53-01:11:41 ] . While generally respectful of the nominees' public service, the overall tone became increasingly direct and at times tense during the question-and-answer period[ 01:38:24 ]

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. Several senators, particularly Vice Chairman Warner, Senator Wyden, and Senator King, conveyed skepticism and frustration with what they perceived as evasiveness from Mr. Simmons, especially regarding the administration's actions and the precise legal interpretations of executive authority[ 01:39:05-01:39:14 ]

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[ 01:52:17 ]

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. Chairman Cotton maintained a direct approach, probing the nuances of legal advice in intelligence operations. Senator Rounds offered strong support for Mr. Metzger, contributing a more positive and less confrontational element to the proceedings[ 01:21:17-01:21:45 ]

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Participants

Transcript

Good afternoon.  This hearing will come to order.  I'd like to welcome you all to today's hearing to consider the nomination of Mr. Peter Metzger to be the Assistant Secretary for Intelligence and Analysis at the Department of the Treasury and Mr. Josh Simmons to be the General Counsel of the Central Intelligence Agency.  I would like to remind all of those in attendance that while you are welcome to observe today's hearing, Vice Chairman Warner and I agree that we will not allow disruptions by the audience.   Audience members may not verbally or physically distract from the hearing, including by shouting, standing, raising signs, or making gestures that block the view of other members of the audience.   Put simply, we came here to hear from Mr. Metzger and Mr. Simmons, not from you.  If I have to have anyone removed from this hearing, I will take further action to have you barred from committee's future proceedings coming within a country mile of the committee's rooms and spaces in the Capitol and barring you from the Capitol.  Our goal is to conduct this hearing, and conducting this hearing is to enable the committee to begin consideration of the nominee's qualifications.  Have him removed immediately.   we will stop nothing, you will stop your disruption, and you will not be seen by this committee again.  The only genocide that has happened since October 7th is the genocide that Hamas perpetrated against the Jewish people.  Is there anyone else who'd like to get it off their chest now to save us time?   All right.  Each nominee here has provided substantive written responses to dozens of questions presented by the committee.  Today, of course, members will be able to ask additional questions and hear from the nominees.  Let me first begin by thanking both of the nominees for their willingness to, once again, answer the call to public service.  I'd also like to recognize and thank their families and loved ones.   many of whom are sitting right behind them, for offering their encouragement and support.
Throughout their careers, both nominees before the committee have given their time and talents to our nation.  Many of those on this committee have had the pleasure to work with Mr. Metzger, who currently serves as a professional staff member on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.  As a designee to Senator Rounds, Mr. Metzger has spent his time with this committee covering issue areas including the CIA, FBI, covert action, counterintelligence, the Middle East, and Africa.   Mr. Metzger, as Assistant Secretary for Intelligence and Analysis at Treasury, you will be expected to support the U.S.  government with timely intelligence on economic security concerns, financial intelligence matters, and the implementation of economic statecraft tools.  This is a critical position, especially as communist China wages an economic and technological war to dominate emerging technologies and works to displace the United States as the predominant economic military power in the world.   Next we have Mr. Simmons, who is currently the Principal Deputy Legal Advisor at the U.S.  Department of State.  During his time at the State Department, Mr. Simmons has worked on foreign policy and national security matters, including intelligence sharing, covert action, and the law of armed conflict.  Mr. Simmons also previously spent time in private law practice, where he handled international arbitration disputes pertaining to national security.   Mr. Simmons, as CIA General Counsel, you will be expected to provide timely and efficient legal guidance in support of ongoing worldwide intelligence operations.  The work of the General Counsel's Office touches every aspect of the agency's business, including the procurement of resources, handling personnel matters, facilitating lawful intelligence collection, and conducting presidentially authorized covert action.   This committee is committed to ensuring our intelligence agencies and officers return to the core mission of collecting clandestine foreign intelligence.  After years of misplaced priorities allowed bureaucratic bloat, risk aversion, and political judgment masquerading as legal advice to creep into America's intelligence apparatus, it is time to right the ship.
With this in mind, I look forward to hearing from our nominees how they plan to approach their respective roles.  Again, thank you both for being here and, once again, answering the call to public service.  I now recognize our distinguished Vice Chairman for any opening remarks.
Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.  And first, let me congratulate both of the witnesses on your nominations.   And while your roles may not attract the same public attention as the DNI or the CIA director, your responsibilities will be no less vital to our national security.   you'll play a key role in ensuring that our intelligence agencies operate both lawfully and effectively.  And as, Peter, particularly you know, this committee doesn't do a lot of things in public hearings.  And I do want to share some of my concerns as we go into these unprecedented times.  Because, to me, it feels like there are new precedents being set virtually every day.  Recently, the Secretary of Defense pulled hundreds of military officers from their duties to lecture them on grooming standards   and urge them to ignore stupid rules of engagement, even as Europe is engaged in a land war with Russia and China threatens Taiwan.  The president then went further, encouraging the use of American cities as training grounds for the military, while deploying armed soldiers to occupy the citizens and arrest American citizens.  Deployments that courts, including judges he appointed, have ruled illegal.   Now, to their credit, those officers at Quantico responded with the professionalism and nonpartisan discipline we expect from our men and women in uniform.  But the sheer lack of respect shown by President Trump and Secretary Hegseth for our military and for rule of law should concern all of us.  But this is not just a matter of respect.  I believe the president and some of his administration are continuing to take actions that make America less safe.

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